The following is Part 1 of a conversation I had with a lesbian. I’ll call her Linda, but that’s not her real name. Other names will be changed also. Everything else, however, is unchanged from the original email exchange except for an occasional clarification (which I’ll put in parentheses) and a few grammatical corrections (we’re not real careful in emails are we?).
I share this conversation hoping it is helpful to others—whether you’re a homosexual or the family member of someone who claims to be homosexual. My guess is this was not a totally unique occurrence.
Paragraph 1 of Linda’s Email:
My name is Linda and I have a few questions for you. First of all, I need to give you some background information. I am a lesbian and am in a committed relationship with the younger sister of John Smith (someone I know). Recently Jane and I had a commitment ceremony—we called it a wedding—to celebrate the love and commitment we share with each other. John and his family were invited, of course. They were even the first to RSVP to the celebration. Unfortunately, there is not a happy ending to this story. John was apparently “struggling” with the situation. He informed his mother that he was having some difficulties, but did not discuss it with us. As a matter of fact, we knew nothing of his “difficulties” until directly after our ceremony, when we noticed that John Smith’s family was not sitting in their reserved table. To make a long and very heartbreaking story short, John blindsided us with this: he and his family/children could not attend our wedding because we are abominations and unnatural. Essentially he used his religion to justify treating his sister and her partner disrespectfully. He broke our hearts and he broke his parents’ hearts (who, by the way, WERE in attendance and VERY supportive).
My Response to Paragraph 1 of Linda’s Email:
I know nothing about why John would RSVP then not attend. We have not spoken about it. But I’m sure John did have “difficulties” with your ceremony and your lifestyle. Because he’s cruel? Because he’s a bigot? Because he’s hateful? Because he’s a homophobe? No. I’ve only known John for a short time, but I can assure you he is none of the above. He strongly believes the Bible is not just another book, but actually a revelation from God. Certainly, you would not want to be intolerant of someone’s deeply held religious beliefs—especially when those beliefs are in accordance with the most trusted sacred book of all time. The words “abomination” and “unnatural” are not original to John. These are words that the Bible uses to describe homosexuality. For example, Leviticus 18:22 reads, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Romans 1:25-27 is a description of mankind in general and tells us that,
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function (sexual relations with men) for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
Now, Linda, you may not believe the Bible is from God, but John (and many of us) do. The Bible is an ancient document that has—I think you could agree—a pretty impressive track record. It has proven itself over and over throughout history to be reliable. It has proven itself to me and to John and to many others (who have taken the time to truly examine it) to be exactly what it claims to be: The Word of God. Now, I realize some teach that the Bible does not really call homosexuality a sin. But I believe any honest person who reads these passages plainly will have to admit that the Bible condemns homosexuality. Reject the Bible if you will, but don’t try to twist what it says.
We believe also that science or “nature” agrees with the Bible. The design of the female and the design of the male tell us that we were designed for each other (sexually speaking), not females for females and males for males. I understand that you disagree with that—that’s obvious—but I trust you can be tolerant of our beliefs and consider the evidence to support such a view.
Here’s my point: If the Bible really is from God, then for John to say that homosexuality is an “abomination” and “unnatural” is not John’s opinion. It is God’s. It is God’s opinion you have a problem with. And, if this is genuinely God’s opinion, is John wrong to try to communicate that? If God communicated it, then it’s something that needs to be communicated. It should be communicated with love and patience, but you cannot fault John for communicating something that he believes God has first communicated.
Paragraph 2 of Linda’s Email:
Here are my questions: do you condone his behavior? Is this something you would have encouraged him to do?
My Response to Paragraph 2 of Linda’s Email:
Yes, I condone the fact that he chose not to attend. Had he asked, I would have told him that I think he would be condoning his sister’s homosexual lifestyle to attend the commitment ceremony. After all, isn’t that what the guests of a “wedding” do—lend their support and encouragement, condoning the relationship? Let’s be honest here, Linda. Weren’t you and Jane forcing your families and friends into a decision by having this ceremony? Its one thing for you to be in the relationship, but it’s quite another to ask everyone else to come and publicly support it.
Keep in mind here, Linda, that those who believe the Bible to be a revelation from God don’t think of a wedding or marriage in the same way you do—as a way to “celebrate the love and commitment we share with each other.” To the Christian who believes the Bible is a revelation from God, marriage is much more than a “celebration” with other people. It is a sacred covenant between a man and a woman before God. For you and Jane to say that you love each other is one thing, but to have a “wedding” is something quite different. It is to say that you are getting married. But marriage is an institution created by God (the first marriage is described in Genesis 2:22-25 where God brought one man and one woman together). Marriage is sacred in the eyes of those who believe the Bible to be a direct revelation from God. Would you ask John to support something that was so counter to his deeply held religious beliefs? Would you ask him to attend a ceremony that he believes makes a mockery of something he considers sacred? Now, I’m guessing you may be remembering that John went through a divorce a few years ago, so that must contradict the idea that he thinks marriage is sacred. While it is true that John has gone through a divorce, he did so before he became a Christian and embraced the Bible as true. No doubt, he has a much higher opinion of marriage today than he once did.
Paragraph 3 of Linda’s Email:
Is it encouraged, in your church, to judge others and then act accordingly? John’s sister and I are extremely angry, heartbroken and in shock. We have been led to believe for the past 5½ years that John and his family support us, when in fact, they do not. Isn’t this a form of lying? Is that another behavior that you support in your congregation?
My Response to Paragraph 3 of Linda’s Email:
With all due respect, this is a judgmental question, Linda. Aren’t you—in fact—judging John and his family for holding a deep conviction about homosexuality that is counter to yours? Isn’t it intolerant of you to say that just because John and his family believe differently they are “judging” you? In fact, if you’ve been clueless about John’s view on this matter for 5½ years, that tells me John has been pretty tolerant. I have no idea how you were “led to believe for the past 5½ years that John and his family supported” you, but you’re the one who forced him to communicate his beliefs about homosexuality. Your commitment ceremony was a line in the sand that caused him to either deny his deeply held religious belief or be subjected to your accusations of “lying” and “tearing the Smith family apart” (below).
But please think about your question: What does it mean to “judge” someone? When Jesus said, “Do not judge, so that you will not be judged” (Matthew 7:1), did He mean that we should completely accept anything anyone does regardless? Did He mean that no one can look at any behavior and call it “wrong” or “sin”? No—that’s an impossible interpretation of Jesus’ words. For example, you yourself communicate clearly in your email that you believe “lying” is wrong. Are you judging others who lie? No—lying is wrong. In fact, it too is called an “abomination” in the Bible (Proverbs 12:22; and no, we don’t condone it in our congregation). So, what did Jesus mean in Matthew 7:1 when He said, “Do not judge…”? Just a few verses later, in Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus said:
“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
Do you see? Jesus was addressing the issue of hypocrisy. He was saying, “Don’t judge someone else while you ignore your own sin. Don’t make a big deal out of someone else’s ‘speck’ when you’ve got an enormous ‘log’ in your own eye.”
So, to put it into your context, John would be very hypocritical if he was an adulterer—cheating on his wife—and telling you and Jane that you are an “abomination” to the Lord. (The Bible also calls adultery an “abomination”; Leviticus 18:20 & 26.) Jesus would say, “John, take the log out of your own eye (quit your adultery) before you help someone else deal with their sin.” But, if John is trying to live his life according to the Bible (God’s revealed will concerning how we are to live), then he is allowed and even commanded to try and “take the speck out of his brother’s (or sister’s) eye.” This matches perfectly with what Jesus said in Matthew 18:15: “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.”
Even if John is not perfect (none of us is) it is not wrong to say that the Bible (i.e., God) teaches that something (e.g., homosexuality, adultery, lying) is wrong. It’s a statement of fact. The fact is, the Bible says homosexuality is wrong (in addition to the verses I’ve already mentioned, see also 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10). So, your real problem is not with John, but with the Bible—and with the fact that John believes the Bible. John is not judging you. The Bible judges your behavior and calls it “sin”.
In fact, Linda, the truth is (if I haven’t lost you already, I’m probably going to lose you with this one), you are the type of hypocrite Jesus was addressing in Matthew 7:1-5. What I mean is, you’re strongly criticizing John and his family for not following through with an RSVP while you are involved in something the Bible calls an “abomination”—a homosexual relationship. If the Bible is to be believed, which is worse? Which would be the “speck” and which would be the “log”?
Paragraph 4 of Linda’s Email:
This is a situation that is literally tearing the Smith family apart. John seems to believe that “everything is going to be ok”. He is mistaken. He doesn’t seem to understand how much he’s hurt his family. But not only does he not understand, he also doesn’t seem to care.
My Response to Paragraph 4 of Linda’s Email:
Again, with all due respect, Linda, I am certain John cares. John cares very much about his sister. He cares very much about his family. I’m sure he would love to have true peace with his family. But, I’m sure he would say that he cares even more about God and that his family would live in accordance with God’s will as He has revealed it in the Bible. Your words here are striking because of something Jesus Himself said in Matthew 10:34-37,
“34Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 “For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. 37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.”
Did you know that, Linda? The words of Jesus—the truth He taught us—is divisive. It has divided the Smith family. John has simply chosen Jesus—his Lord, his God—over his family. I’m sure John’s preference would be that the entire Smith family—and you—would choose to trust the truth of Jesus rather than your own opinions. Jesus did not come to bring peace—the kind of peace you’re talking about. The kind of peace that is really just a compromise. The kind of peace that insists that John compromise his deeply held religious beliefs and pretend that he doesn’t disagree with you and Jane about homosexuality. The kind of peace where everyone just pretends there is peace.
I haven’t spoken with John about all this yet, but my guess is he believes his sister is in a great deal of danger. How is Jane in danger? While it sounds as though you and Jane are monogamous, many lesbians are not and are 19 times more likely to have syphilis, twice as likely to have genital warts and four times more likely to have scabies. In one study I read, the average lifespan for a lesbian is only 45! Almost half that of heterosexual women. Researchers have noted a disproportionate abuse of drugs and alcohol by homosexuals, as well as higher levels of emotional mental problems, social instability and various forms of disruptive behavior. Are you and Jane the exceptions to all this? I hope so. But these facts about the homosexual lifestyle support the Bible’s statement that those who practice the homosexual lifestyle will receive “in their own persons the due penalty of their error” (Romans 1:27). Choosing to reject God’s standards of right and wrong is a choice to step away from His protection. Any sin—rebellion against God’s revealed will—is going to have some type of consequence. Homosexuality is no exception—no matter how strongly you believe otherwise. So, you and Jane are in danger. Is it right for one who believes another is in danger to simply ignore it and pretend everything is just fine?
But even more important is that there are eternal consequences to sin. Again, if the Bible is true, it tells us you and Jane and all of us “have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Picture it like this: If you and I picked up a rock to see who could throw it the farthest, you might throw it farther or I might throw it farther. But if our lives depended on whether or not we could throw a rock to Africa, none of us is going to survive. We all “fall short” of God’s standard of righteousness. But it gets worse. This is not something we can just shrug off as no big deal. The Bible also tells us the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). You know what wages are. That means our sin earns us “death.” By “death” the Bible doesn’t just mean physical death. The Bible often speaks of hell as a real place of real punishment. It tells us it is a place of “eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9). This is every human’s situation. This is every person’s greatest problem. Heterosexual or homosexual. We’re all sinners—we just choose different sins.
But the good news of the Bible is that God did not leave us in this predicament. It tells us “while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). He became our Substitute and took our punishment so we would not have to. First John 4:10 reads, “In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (the remedy) for our sins.” So, all of us have a choice to make. Will we let Jesus Christ be our Substitute, or will we not? There aren’t “many paths” as some teach. If Jesus is to be believed, He is the only way to God. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” Acts 4:12 reads, “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” How does that happen? How are we “saved” from our sin predicament? Ephesians 2:8-9 was written to Christians, explaining to them exactly how they were “made alive in Christ.” The Apostle Paul wrote, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” It’s a gift, Linda. Please know that none of us can “boast” before God. I don’t look down on you as more of a sinner than myself. We’re all in need of the “grace” of God and by “faith” it is yours. Just like a gift, though, if you don’t receive it, it’s not yours. But if you are willing, the “gift” of being “saved” is yours.
But there’s more good news. When a person trusts Christ in this way and receives this free gift of salvation, she is changed from the inside out. Another time, Paul wrote to some new Christians who had already received the free gift of salvation in Christ and he said this in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11,
“9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”
Some of the Corinthians “were” homosexuals before they trusted Christ. After they trusted Him, they no longer chose the homosexual lifestyle.
Linda, you can be changed by Jesus Christ and be “washed” of your sin just as many millions of people (heterosexual and homosexual) have been in the past. Just as I personally have been. None of us is perfect—we won’t be this side of heaven—but you can be “saved” from the penalty of your sins in the next life and begin to experience power over your sin in this life. I invite you to believe—put your trust in Jesus Christ—for the forgiveness of your sins and the promise of eternal life with God.
The night I trusted Him (when I was 19 years old), I prayed something like this (maybe this would express what you want to say to Him): “Lord, Jesus, I recognize and agree with You that I am a sinner and in big trouble—headed for hell. But, I believe you died on the Cross for my sins and provided the way for me to be forgiven of my sins and have the gift of eternal life with You forever. By faith, I want to receive the gift of salvation. I believe that You can and will forgive me of my sins. I trust that You will take me to heaven when this life is over. Not because I’m good enough. But because You are good. Thank You, Jesus, for this free gift.”
I know this is an incredibly long email, but let me finish by coming back to my point above: Jesus did not come to bring the kind of peace you’re talking about—where no one is allowed to disagree with you about your homosexuality. But, He did come to bring peace between God and sinners. Romans 5:1 tells us that “…by faith (believing, trusting), we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
And, I hope you can believe me when I say that I really and truly care what happens to you and am praying that you will find true peace with God.
[I’ll share Linda’s reply in a future post.]
good stuff! VERY long though, you are correct. I just hope she reads beyond the first paragraph.
[...] following is Part 2 of a conversation I had with a lesbian (click here for Part 1). I’ll call her Linda, but that’s not her real name. Other names will be changed also. [...]